Tyler Johnson is intimately familiar with suffering. He’s an oncologist who has sat with countless people in some of the most difficult moments of their lives, and in the final moments before their deaths. He’s been there as people have received life-changing news, and as they’ve grappled with their deepest questions: “What has my life meant? What should I prioritize if my time is limited? Have I given enough attention to what truly matters?”

It’s that perspective that Tyler brings to the project we brought him on to talk about: a new book, published by Deseret Book, called When Church is Hard. In addition to his work as an oncologist, Tyler has been a bishop who has worked with many who have found their experience at church, for any of a number of reasons, deeply hard. And in a way that we feel like he is uniquely qualified to do, Tyler has approached both of these situations with the type of response they both call for: listening, validation, empathy, and humbly-offered insight.

In our conversation with him, we explored how doubt and uncertainty, rather than being a flaw or something to “fix,” can be a natural part of faith that leads to deeper growth and integrity. We also explored the parallels between the existential questions his patients face and those that arise during faith crises —and how both might invite us to re-evaluate priorities in a way we couldn’t otherwise. And finally, we looked at what belonging looks like, on both sides, when someone is sitting in pain and perplexity.

For anyone who is feeling like this part of their faith journey is just hard, or has a loved one feeling this way, we really think this conversation is for you. Tyler’s a deeply thoughtful and empathetic person, and we loved talking with him. 

Thanks, as always for listening, and with that, we’ll jump right in.